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surpass vs simplicity
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satchdds



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 210
Location: niagara falls, n.y.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:41 pm    Post subject: surpass vs simplicity Reply with quote

Jk, Please review which situations you prefer one over the other.

thanks
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satchdds



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 210
Location: niagara falls, n.y.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bump for discussion
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a tough one for me. Both are my children of a sort.

Surpass is not meant to replace Simplicity. Surpass is meant to help those stuck on "total etch" and on 4th generation materials move to a self-etch, or no-rinse, system. It's easier to use than 4th generation systems, and less chance for sensitivity.

Some people like the "simplicity" of a two bottle system and are doing just fine with it. Others don't mind the additional bottle.

Officially, the bond strengths of Surpass will be higher than Simplicity. Then again, they'll be higher than pretty much just about anything ever made.

I still like Simplicity for sealing preps.
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satchdds



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 210
Location: niagara falls, n.y.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks chief.
I do like the surpass but you got to love the 2 bottle simplicity.
will the long term bond strenghts be clinically significant?
Lets say you doing a modf.... on your son which system do you call for.

sorry for being a nudge

stu
adcsmile.com
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hudley



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 19
Location: Saginaw, MI

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Surpass Reply with quote

Greetings All!

I haven't been on the Apex forums for a long time. I ordered Surpass at the Townie meeting and have had a chance to use it. Prior to this, there's been no other bonding system in my repertoire but Simplicity since '02. I find Surpass easy to use, although maybe not as easy as Simplicity.

Have any of the regulars switched to Surpass as their day-to-day bonding agent? I'm finding myself using Surpass in areas where I'm asking the material to do more (class V's, lower anterior incisals, etc.).

Just looking for opinions.

Alan
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Mark J Fleming DDS



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 736
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan,

Good to "see" you back. I use Surpass for EVERYTHING. I like just using one system, that's why I don't use both Simplicity and Surpass, although both are in the office. It saves me a step of remembering on indirects whether I have left an uncured layer of Sim 2 or not. I just make sure I really thin out Sur 3 before curing. Cool
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hudley



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 19
Location: Saginaw, MI

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:51 pm    Post subject: Surpass 3 Reply with quote

Can you "overdry" Surpass 3? It seems a lot thicker than the Sim 2 that I'm used to. I'm just wondering if "overthinning" is a problem.

Alan
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Mark J Fleming DDS



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 736
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: Surpass 3 Reply with quote

hudley wrote:
Can you "overdry" Surpass 3? It seems a lot thicker than the Sim 2 that I'm used to. I'm just wondering if "overthinning" is a problem.

Alan


NO!!!!!! John, I believe, had Neil Jessup thinned the heck out of it and Neil still got high bond strengths. Did I remember that correctly, good sir? Cool
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: Surpass 3 Reply with quote

Mark J Fleming DDS wrote:
hudley wrote:
Can you "overdry" Surpass 3? It seems a lot thicker than the Sim 2 that I'm used to. I'm just wondering if "overthinning" is a problem.

Alan


NO!!!!!! John, I believe, had Neil Jessup thinned the heck out of it and Neil still got high bond strengths. Did I remember that correctly, good sir? Cool


It was Tim who "overthinned" it in Chicago and still did really well with bond strengths.

At Ultradent, Neil thinned it down to what he felt was 10 microns and we still were at 50 mPa within 13 minutes.
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Mark J Fleming DDS



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 736
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: Surpass 3 Reply with quote

[quote="john kanca"]
Mark J Fleming DDS wrote:
hudley wrote:
Can you "overdry" Surpass 3? It seems a lot thicker than the Sim 2 that I'm used to. I'm just wondering if "overthinning" is a problem.

Alan


NO!!!!!! John, I believe, had Neil Jessup thinned the heck out of it and Neil still got high bond strengths. Did I remember that correctly, good sir? Cool


It was Tim who "overthinned" it in Chicago and still did really well with bond strengths.

At Ultradent, Neil thinned it down to what he felt was 10 microns and we still were at 50 mPa within 13 minutes.[/quote]

I was not privileged to try it in Chicago. Wink I remebered you talking about your UltraDent trip. All in all, great material! Cool
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe if you showed up.....
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Mark J Fleming DDS



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 736
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john kanca wrote:
Maybe if you showed up.....


I go where I'm asked........and many times where I'm not!!!!!! Wink Cool
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seth



Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the best way to seal composites with surpass and permaseal
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Ekrause



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 782
Location: I'm here now.

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sur 1
Sur 2 dry dry dry
Sur 3 thin thin thin
Permaseal thin thin thin
Cure 10 seconds
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seth



Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about with cores...right now I am doing sur 1 sur 2 3 layers thin it to oblivion sur 3 thin sometimes cure small layer of anchor cure and then the rest...any improvements??
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