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Surpass Bond testing cont.
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tallarob



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john kanca wrote:
When I was at Tufts, we ran Surpass against Excite and H3PO4 etched enamel. We got 46 MPa for Excite, and 49 MPa for Surpass. I'd expect Solo to exhibit similar numbers.

Acid etched enamel tops out around 45-50 MPa in our test methodology no matter whose bonding system it is, provided it really etches well.

The bottom line is that it will bond to enamel as well as anything there is. If you check the website you'll see the enamel numbers for Surpass against 4th generation systems.


Thanks. Sometimes you are simply looking for brute strengh, i.e. repairing an incisal edge that is entirely in enamel. In this case, I would assume you would still use #'s 1, 2 and 3 and apply #1 20-30 seconds. Is this correct?
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Rob Murrell
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Gerry



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 448
Location: Tarrytown NY

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

20 seconds on unprepped enamel. I hit everything with Al2O3 briefly so the enamel is "Prepped". But still apply part 1 for 20 seconds.

Check the occlusion in function/parafunction Occlusion will overcome bond strength every time! And of course the patients never do anything that might cause a problem.
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Gerry
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tallarob



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears as if we can now bond to dentin stronger than we can enamel. This is really revolutionary when it comes to veneers. All these years we've been told to try and keep or veneer preps in enamel, which is definitely easier said than done. It now appears as if we are better off bonding to the dentin.

Am I correct in making this assumption?
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Rob Murrell
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Gerry



Joined: 13 May 2005
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Location: Tarrytown NY

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bond strengths we've acheived on dentin have almost always been higher than those on enamel. As for veneers - the vast majority of preps for veneers fall predominately in dentin! Some opinion leaders claim that dentin bonding is temporary. Therefore some form of mechanical assistance is required. A wonderful abstract is being presented at the IADR in July showing the results of "potholes" to assist in bonding to dentin. Unfortunately the pothole assisted samples showed considerably lower SBS than those on flat dentin even after several months! The first veneers I placed were almost totally on dentin. 24 years later they're stiil in place. I feel quite secure with my dentin bonded cases.

I don't wish to step on anyone's toes but you can see what I'm implying.
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Gerry
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tallarob



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One last thing. What is the bond strength of the resin cement to porcelain using Interface?
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Rob Murrell
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Gerry



Joined: 13 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just about every Interface test we did resulted in the ceramic failing before the adhesive layer. So the strength of the restoration is dependant on the ceramic chosen.

Neat Huh?!
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Gerry
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tallarob wrote:
One last thing. What is the bond strength of the resin cement to porcelain using Interface?


Depends on the moduls of the composite. Z100 will generate higher numbers than something like Anchor or Variolink. What does matter is that the porcelain shatters in all testing.
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