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Bonding PFM crowns
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject: Bonding PFM crowns Reply with quote

If bonding PFM crowns is desired, the following technique is useful.

The tooth:

Apply Simplicity using the technique for self-cure resins.

The metal crown:

Sandblast the internal metal surface of the crown. Rinse and dry thoroughly. Apply Sim 2 to the inner sandblasted surface, dry, and light-activate.

Insert resin cement and seat.
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cool kid



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 818
Location: chicago

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JK,

for my own persuit of knowledge, what does puting sim 2 on the metal and curing do? does it actually bond to the metal after you sandblast it? Just trying to continue learning here. (and make myself sound smarter when I tell others how to do it)
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john kanca



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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Light-activation is always better then self-cure. It provides a wetted and primed surface and the bond numbers are always better.
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d2thdr



Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john kanca wrote:
Light-activation is always better then self-cure. It provides a wetted and primed surface and the bond numbers are always better.


Trying to sound dumber than CK, and maybe I missed something, but when we are cementing a post and light curing the Sim 2 prior to post placement, I always wonder if the light is doing anything down in the bottom of that hole. Does Sim 2 cold cure when the anchor is added? Embarassed

Don't place many posts, when I do it's usually a flexi-flange in a salvage situation.
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john kanca wrote:
Light-activation is always better then self-cure. It provides a wetted and primed surface and the bond numbers are always better.


Trying to sound dumber than CK, and maybe I missed something, but when we are cementing a post and light curing the Sim 2 prior to post placement, I always wonder if the light is doing anything down in the bottom of that hole. Does Sim 2 cold cure when the anchor is added? Embarassed


The short answer is yes it does.

Provided the light is on and working.

(Didn't want to take any chances.... Razz )
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Howardmg



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 455
Location: Bethlehem, PA.

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Bonding PFM crowns Reply with quote

john kanca wrote:
If bonding PFM crowns is desired, the following technique is useful.

The tooth:

Apply Simplicity using the technique for self-cure resins.

The metal crown:

Sandblast the internal metal surface of the crown. Rinse and dry thoroughly. Apply Sim 2 to the inner sandblasted surface, dry, and light-activate.

Insert resin cement and seat
.


John- After you light cure the Sim 2 on the interior of the crown, do you put another layer of Sim 2 without lighting it, before the resin cement?
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Howard M. Goldstein DMD.
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www.exceldentalcare.com
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Bonding PFM crowns Reply with quote

Howardmg wrote:
john kanca wrote:
If bonding PFM crowns is desired, the following technique is useful.

The tooth:

Apply Simplicity using the technique for self-cure resins.

The metal crown:

Sandblast the internal metal surface of the crown. Rinse and dry thoroughly. Apply Sim 2 to the inner sandblasted surface, dry, and light-activate.

Insert resin cement and seat
.


John- After you light cure the Sim 2 on the interior of the crown, do you put another layer of Sim 2 without lighting it, before the resin cement?



Good question, Howard.

No- because on ceramic or metal, self-cure cements stick just fine to a surface treated in such a manner.
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Howardmg



Joined: 11 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I getting confused with Dual Cures?? Are they the ones that need that extra layer of uncured Sim 2?
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you're getting confused about is tooth vs crown.

The additional layer is needed on the tooth with both self-cure and dual-cure. The additional layer is not required on the crown. Only one is needed.
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cool kid



Joined: 12 May 2005
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Location: chicago

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john kanca wrote:
What you're getting confused about is tooth vs crown.

The additional layer is needed on the tooth with both self-cure and dual-cure. The additional layer is not required on the crown. Only one is needed.


now I'm confused Shocked . When I cement my cerec crowns in, I prep my crown with interface, then sim 2 thinned and cured, then another thinned layer of sim 2 uncured. I have been doing this for a long time now. Does this mean that I've doing it wrong? I've been putting sim 1 and 2 on the tooth as a would treat a tooth for composite. I've been putting the uncured layer on the crown.
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Mark J Fleming DDS



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 736
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool kid wrote:
john kanca wrote:
What you're getting confused about is tooth vs crown.

The additional layer is needed on the tooth with both self-cure and dual-cure. The additional layer is not required on the crown. Only one is needed.


now I'm confused Shocked . When I cement my cerec crowns in, I prep my crown with interface, then sim 2 thinned and cured, then another thinned layer of sim 2 uncured. I have been doing this for a long time now. Does this mean that I've doing it wrong? I've been putting sim 1 and 2 on the tooth as a would treat a tooth for composite. I've been putting the uncured layer on the crown.


After putting a layer of Simplicity on both the tooth and restoration, I've been placing an uncured layer on both the toothand restoration. Am I reading this as the uncured layer on the restoration is not necessary? Thanks. Cool
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The additional unactivated layer of Sim 2 goes on the tooth. Cool
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Howardmg



Joined: 11 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason, Flem, Rich, and myself, all thought that in addition a uncured layer (over a cured layer) went into what was being cemented also.
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Howard M. Goldstein DMD.
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www.exceldentalcare.com
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys gotta watch the video! Razz
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Mark J Fleming DDS



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Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john kanca wrote:
You guys gotta watch the video! Razz


Yea, you guys!!! Twisted Evil Wait a minute, that includes me!!!!!! Rolling Eyes Cool
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