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Sim 2 and flow cured simultaneously?

 
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cool kid



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 818
Location: chicago

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:30 pm    Post subject: Sim 2 and flow cured simultaneously? Reply with quote

Someone on DT was told by another doc to do this. I always thought that this was a no no. Someone even said that JK recommends it? I did not think that was the case and said that Sim protocol says to cure the sim 2 first then place the flow. what happens if you cure both at the same time? Just curious?
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Rich (cool kid) Rosenblatt
whipping boy of flem
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Howardmg



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 455
Location: Bethlehem, PA.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich-
I did it that way for years. When I asked John about it in the past, he said it was okay if you cured the two together for 20 seconds but from the grimace on his face, it was obvious that he is uncomfortable with this protocol and prefers two seperate 10 second cures. I now cure them seperately.
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Howard M. Goldstein DMD.
Bethlehem. PA.
www.exceldentalcare.com
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cool kid



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 818
Location: chicago

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as do I howard, but I didn't know the reason behind it. Now I do, thanks
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Rich (cool kid) Rosenblatt
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Mark J Fleming DDS



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 736
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool kid wrote:
as do I howard, but I didn't know the reason behind it. Now I do, thanks


Rich,

I believe that John was concerned that enough light energy was getting to the adhesive for an excellent bond/seal when curing both the adhesive and flowable together. As George 41 would say--Not going to do it, wouldn't be prudent! Wink Laughing Cool
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dsg_c1



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 352
Location: mill creek, wa

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am even a bit obsessive about this stage. i cure sim 2 for 10 sec. and then i cure the flow for 20 sec. to make sure enough energy is passed through the two materials.

speaking of flow: who uses permaflo from ultradent?
i have been using it for awhile, but always seem to complain about how runny it is, much more so than tetric from ivoclar or supreme from 3m. anyone notice this or have an opinion?

i still like the material, just wondering if everyone else suffers from the "runs"!!!!

take care,
d
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darren greenhalgh dds
15130 main st suite 210
mill creek, wa. 98012
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Howardmg



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 455
Location: Bethlehem, PA.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren-
I an now using Permaflo also.
On small preps and tight boxes (I love that phrase Wink ), I use the blue micro tips from Ultradent to apply the Permaflo. You have to squeeze hard but it doesn't run everywhere.
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Howard M. Goldstein DMD.
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www.exceldentalcare.com
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dsg_c1



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 352
Location: mill creek, wa

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks howard for the tip, i will give it a try.
i still find it very fluid. for instance when i place it in a small prep or tight box the slight excess runs with gravity - up on walls or onto my matrix band. i just didn't see that with the more viscous flo material out there. maybe i'm just placing too much.

take care,
d
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darren greenhalgh dds
15130 main st suite 210
mill creek, wa. 98012
www.pacificNWsmiles.com
425.357.6400

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bj



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"speaking of flow: who uses permaflo from ultradent?
i have been using it for awhile, but always seem to complain about how runny it is, much more so than tetric from ivoclar or supreme from 3m. anyone notice this or have an opinion? i still like the material, just wondering if everyone else suffers from the "runs"!!!! "

I too switched from Tetric Flow to Permaflow. I too had the same complaint for about 2-4 months. It is a non-issue now. You will simply learn how to manipulate it like you did amalgam etc Hang in there.

I use the tips that are metal at the tips/canula, plastic at the attachment site to the syringe. I must put more of a bend in the canula since it is unsat otherwise in certain cases.
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Gerry



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 448
Location: Tarrytown NY

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been using PremaFlow from Ultradent for several years with excellent results! Also using it for P/F in place of relatively unfilled sealants. Superb! Asfor the simultaneous curing - It can be done but just how much is saved by curing the adhesive and flowable together?! I'll wast the 7 seconds.
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