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Bonding Laminates with Surpass

 
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trtoothdoc



Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Bonding Laminates with Surpass Reply with quote

In a case where you're bonding laminates to a prepared surface which is mostly enamel, but with some dentin (usually in the cervical third), is it detrimental to do an acid pre-etch, wash, dry, then go to Surpass 1,2,3? Selective etching is difficult since you really can't see where the dentin is exposed without etching it. Second, should you try to treat only the dentin with Surpass 1,2 before covering the entire prep with 3, or just go ahead and treat the entire surface with 1-3?

I guess my question boils down to: is there a problem with etching dentin with phosphoric acid before applying the Surpass system?
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twmdds



Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe there's a benefit to doing that. Surpass 1 is as strong if not stronger than the blue etchants. If you follow the manufacturer's instructions you'll always have the best result.
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Kro



Joined: 29 Oct 2012
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twmdds wrote:
I can't believe there's a benefit to doing that. Surpass 1 is as strong if not stronger than the blue etchants. If you follow the manufacturer's instructions you'll always have the best result.


Ditto! Ulrabrushes is absolutly need for Sur1 with activation.
No agitation= no etch. Microbrush is not suitable.
pH Sur about 0,6
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Ekrause



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 782
Location: I'm here now.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kro wrote:

Ulrabrushes is absolutly need for Sur1 with activation.
No agitation= no etch. Microbrush is not suitable.


Please stop with the misinformation!!

Microbrushes are absolutely appropriate for Surpass 1.
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trtoothdoc



Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you still use Surpass in a no- or minimal-prep veneer case?
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twmdds



Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trtoothdoc wrote:
Would you still use Surpass in a no- or minimal-prep veneer case?


Absolutely!
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Ekrause



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 782
Location: I'm here now.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got dozens of them around!
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess my work here is done Cool
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priior



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damn... i've only used microbrushes since i started with surpass (5 years now?)
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Nareg Apelian DMD
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Kro



Joined: 29 Oct 2012
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ekrause wrote:
Kro wrote:

Ulrabrushes is absolutly need for Sur1 with activation.
No agitation= no etch. Microbrush is not suitable.


Please stop with the misinformation!!

Microbrushes are absolutely appropriate for Surpass 1.


You are mistaken with microbrush, you can use it only on very small surface,
like nccl, it's feature chemistry of Sur1! Friction necessary for etching,
it's physics. If you want to save your money, you can wash brushes (Sur1) in water, Sur2 in ethanol, Sur3 in ethanol!

Joooohn! I need your assistance conditional! Shocked
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kro wrote:
Ekrause wrote:
Kro wrote:

Ulrabrushes is absolutly need for Sur1 with activation.
No agitation= no etch. Microbrush is not suitable.


Please stop with the misinformation!!

Microbrushes are absolutely appropriate for Surpass 1.


You are mistaken with microbrush, you can use it only on very small surface,
like nccl, it's feature chemistry of Sur1! Friction necessary for etching,
it's physics. If you want to save your money, you can wash brushes (Sur1) in water, Sur2 in ethanol, Sur3 in ethanol!

Joooohn! I need your assistance conditional! Shocked


Micro-applicators may be used with Surpass 1 as long as the exposure time is sufficient.

Agitation is best, but it will etch even if not agitated. Friction is not the best way to describe it.
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Kro



Joined: 29 Oct 2012
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john kanca wrote:
Kro wrote:
Ekrause wrote:
Kro wrote:

Ulrabrushes is absolutly need for Sur1 with activation.
No agitation= no etch. Microbrush is not suitable.


Please stop with the misinformation!!

Microbrushes are absolutely appropriate for Surpass 1.


You are mistaken with microbrush, you can use it only on very small surface,
like nccl, it's feature chemistry of Sur1! Friction necessary for etching,
it's physics. If you want to save your money, you can wash brushes (Sur1) in water, Sur2 in ethanol, Sur3 in ethanol!

Joooohn! I need your assistance conditional! Shocked


Micro-applicators may be used with Surpass 1 as long as the exposure time is sufficient.

Agitation is best, but it will etch even if not agitated. Friction is not the best way to describe it.


I did experiments with etching, with and without agitation, aprizmatic enamel wasn't etch correctly.
Increase the surface energy during etching, compensate for the excess causes with H2O and Surfactants, ( water and succinic acid can't etch enamel correctly). Сreation of a new surface is always has a negative work and a positive gain in surface energy. This fenomenon cause adsorption of surfactant moleculus on surface for compensation of excess energy. If we want to etch further, we mast agitate solution, add a job to the system and adsoprtion isn't be.

No agitation= no enamel etching. ( adequate etching)

For sound dentin, we need to remove the smear layer, it's 5 sec of
agitatin, after, surfactant is work in dentin tubulus.
But it's problem for sclerotic dentin ( has tubulus've got non etching prizm)
We must agitate about 20-25 sec for etch intertubular dentin.
Why all primers in the world is acidic? Because they masst to etch dentin tubulus for charge surface, but it isn't truly for Sur2, because Sur1 is real primer and Sur2 can adsoorption anhydrous. Anhydrous adsorptin is the key for longterm Surpass! It absolutely ingeniously! (Tricky John)
Imho.

Alex
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