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Enhancing my surpass bond
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d2thdr



Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:19 am    Post subject: Enhancing my surpass bond Reply with quote

Utter failure yesterday doing a build-up on a salvage job. Only wall still present was lingual cusp, decent enamel margin all around. Tooth has been exposed to oral fluids with MOD resoration and buccal cusp missing for I'm not sure how long. Tested vital to cold, would like to avoid endo if possible.

Good isolation, all caries removed (used Sable Seek), Surpass 1, 2, and 3 with Titan mixed, Anchor build-up. Let it gel, 40 seconds cure.

Prepping for crown, entire BU went right up the suction. Managed to still get a crude temp over what's there, but wondering how (or if) the bond could be enhanced best.

Did not use air abrasion yet.

Any other suggestions? Will probably lose it in time, but I didn't have anything better to do, and I like challenges. Rolling Eyes
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Enhancing my surpass bond Reply with quote

d2thdr wrote:
Utter failure yesterday doing a build-up on a salvage job. Only wall still present was lingual cusp, decent enamel margin all around. Tooth has been exposed to oral fluids with MOD resoration and buccal cusp missing for I'm not sure how long. Tested vital to cold, would like to avoid endo if possible.

Good isolation, all caries removed (used Sable Seek), Surpass 1, 2, and 3 with Titan mixed, Anchor build-up. Let it gel, 40 seconds cure.

Prepping for crown, entire BU went right up the suction. Managed to still get a crude temp over what's there, but wondering how (or if) the bond could be enhanced best.

Did not use air abrasion yet.

Any other suggestions? Will probably lose it in time, but I didn't have anything better to do, and I like challenges. Rolling Eyes


What color was the Anchor? What's the expiration date?
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d2thdr



Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

White, expiration date of November 2013.
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Dennis M Murphy, DDS
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2thdr wrote:
White, expiration date of November 2013.


White is tough because no light really gets through it well. You might a thin layer of Titan WO followed by Anchor A2. That will demarcate the buildup margin.
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d2thdr



Joined: 16 Oct 2005
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Material sets in 4 minutes, on its own, correct?

Should I wait longer to do my prep?
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john kanca



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2thdr wrote:
Material sets in 4 minutes, on its own, correct?

Should I wait longer to do my prep?


It usually does, but modulus takes more time to develop. If you need to stress it early, then try my suggestion. I know it will work.
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d2thdr



Joined: 16 Oct 2005
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it, thanks!
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Ekrause



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 782
Location: I'm here now.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done Titan WO thin layer, then rest Anchor for years now. BU's never fall out.
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scottie



Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 360
Location: Albuquerque NM

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the reason you demarcate the BU margin with Titan WO, to make sure you bring the crown margin below the BU and has nothing to do with retention of the BU?
As regards retention of the BU, it would be Surpass then Titan WO and cure,
Seamfree and then Anchor. Now at this point would you let the Anchor gel on its own before light curing it? How long should you wait after placing the Anchor and curing before prepping the crown?
It would be good to feel more secure that BUs are not going to fall out either when the tooth is prepped or when the temp is taken off.
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Ekrause



Joined: 11 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottie wrote:
Is the reason you demarcate the BU margin with Titan WO, to make sure you bring the crown margin below the BU and has nothing to do with retention of the BU?
As regards retention of the BU, it would be Surpass then Titan WO and cure,
Seamfree and then Anchor. Now at this point would you let the Anchor gel on its own before light curing it? How long should you wait after placing the Anchor and curing before prepping the crown?
It would be good to feel more secure that BUs are not going to fall out either when the tooth is prepped or when the temp is taken off.


no, you can barely tell the difference between the White Titan layer, and the White Anchor that makes up the rest of the build up. The thin layer of Titan is to make sure you have excellent adhesion and adaptation to the tooth.

I don't use Seamfree between the layers, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt.

I let the Anchor gel for 5 minutes before the assistant lights it up. Gives me time to check Dentaltown... er a hygiene patient!

I start prepping the tooth right after the assistant has finished curing.
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scottie



Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 360
Location: Albuquerque NM

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, is it important to use Titan WO in this method? I probably don't look at the shade of the Titan too often. It's probably A2. Why does the WO (white opaque?) work better holding the BU on the tooth?
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Ekrause



Joined: 11 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A2 would work fine too. Just make sure you drop your margin past it. I personally like white build ups. Easier to see.
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jakep



Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This topic is perfect for me right now. I've had two buildups come off in the past week and it's concerning me. Nothing in my protocal has changed. One was surpass with WO then regular composite and the other was surpass with WO then anchor.

Seems the common between the two is maybe too much WO or not enough light activation of them? I generally place a little of the WO with the #3 then cure with the valo light for 10 seconds, then place another 1-1.5mm of the WO, light cure with valo for 10 second. After that either composite from a compule in layers or anchor. The anchor I let gel for about 2 minutes then light cure.

So please critique this protocal. Also I'm wondering with the WO should it be cured longer with the valo? My anchor recently for some reason seems to be taking longer to gel but maybe my imagination. I bonded an emax the other day and at 2:30 it wasn't really gelled yet but at 3 minutes it seemed really hard.

Please help.

Thanks.

Jake
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WO takes a long time to properly and fully harden and light does not pass thorugh it easily since it is WO.

You might try applying some Titan and lightp-activating that first and then WO in thinner layers, light activating each one separately if you feel you need the white.

Another option is to place a layer of WO Titan over the Surpass and then regular A2 Anchor over that. That provides you with a white layer demarcating the tooth structure.
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jakep



Joined: 21 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john kanca wrote:
WO takes a long time to properly and fully harden and light does not pass thorugh it easily since it is WO.

How long do you normally cure the WO for with a valo light on ten second mode?

You might try applying some Titan and lightp-activating that first and then WO in thinner layers, light activating each one separately if you feel you need the white.

I normally place a small amount of WO with the surpass 3 then LC together. Are you suggesting not using WO with the 3 but a conventional titan shade?

Another option is to place a layer of WO Titan over the Surpass and then regular A2 Anchor over that. That provides you with a white layer demarcating the tooth structure

This is EXACTLY what I do and for the reason.
.


I didn't quite follow all of this. Comments above. Thank you.
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