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Immediate dentine seal

 
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factor78



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Immediate dentine seal Reply with quote

Hi John

What is the protocol for IDS for lab made emax crowns that will be delivered 2 weeks later using surpass. I'd rather not have to numb the patient up for delivery.

Cheers
Dinesh
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priior



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i prep, temp, then IDS (surpass 1 2 3).

THEN take the impression.

so on delivery day, treat it like a normal tooth, surpass 123 the tooth, interface surpass2 the intaglio.
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Nareg Apelian DMD
Montreal, Qc, Canada
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scottie



Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 360
Location: Albuquerque NM

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't use Surpass to seal and I prefer Simplicity since I think it leaves a thinner film on the tooth. But I was impressing and making the temp before sealing. Sealing was the last thing I did before cementing the temp.
I also don't reuse the bonding agents at the seat appointment. Should I be doing that?
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factor78



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I was concerned about there not being a proper bond between the two bonding layers.
Cheers
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priior



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think john and eric impress then IDS.. but im really not sure.
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seal after the impression but either way will work. Just remember to wash the 02 inhibited layer off with alcohol.
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factor78



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I haven't used alcohol on the tooth before. Is there a specific type that is needed for the tooth or is it a 70% isiprophyl achol ok? I'm assuming you are talking about using the alcohol on the seat visit before using surpass.
Cheers
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priior



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think the o2 layer might interfere with the impression material too (i think)

(if you seal then impress)
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Nareg Apelian DMD
Montreal, Qc, Canada
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

factor78 wrote:
Ok, I haven't used alcohol on the tooth before. Is there a specific type that is needed for the tooth or is it a 70% isiprophyl achol ok? I'm assuming you are talking about using the alcohol on the seat visit before using surpass.
Cheers


The isopropyl is fine. It's used to wipe off the 02 inhibited layer on the Surpass resin after it's been light-activated as if you fail to do that you might find that your PVS impression material is impaired where it contacts the resin.
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scottie



Joined: 21 May 2005
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Location: Albuquerque NM

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John
Just for the record would you mind, telling me step by step, cookbook style. how you seal a prep. and what you do at the seat appointment of an E-max crown?
Thanks. I know you have done this on these boards before, but I just want to make sure I'm doing it the way you recommend.
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Prep
2. Cord
3. Temporary
4. Impression
5. Seal, wipe off 02 layer with alcohol
6. Seat temp
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scottie



Joined: 21 May 2005
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Location: Albuquerque NM

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks John
So at the seat appointment of an E-max crown

remove temp and clean off cement.
Interface inside crown, dry.
Place Sur 2 inside crown, thin and cure.
Seat with Anchor.

I had not been wiping off the O2 layer with alcohol after sealing. I had already taken the impression and was seating the temp right after sealing. I never had any problems.
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priior



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wiping the o2 layer is for the impression material (or the temp), in case you ids then you impress.


john: any issues with sealing before impressing? im even thinking of mixing surpass 3 with titan and IDSing that way before impressing.
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Nareg Apelian DMD
Montreal, Qc, Canada
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

priior wrote:
wiping the o2 layer is for the impression material (or the temp), in case you ids then you impress.


john: any issues with sealing before impressing? im even thinking of mixing surpass 3 with titan and IDSing that way before impressing.


That'll work. Just make sure to wipe off the 02 layer with alcohol. Key.
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scottie



Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 360
Location: Albuquerque NM

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am trying to visualize sealing the tooth with Surpass 3 and Titan. That's going to be quite a thick seal! Do you really need that?
So you would use the Sur 1 and 2 and then mix in some Titan with the Sur 3, thin it out and cure.
So far I have found that Simplicity works just fine.
Is there any advantage to resealing at the seat appointment?
There are a few instances where I do have to numb at the seat appointment. Okay to reseal with Simplicity again at that appointment?
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