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Surpass with Universal Resins cements

 
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Renzo



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Redmond, OR

PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:40 pm    Post subject: Surpass with Universal Resins cements Reply with quote

I use Anchor nearly 90% of the time. Occasionally when I have a very retentive prep, I'll Interface my Emax and Sur3 it, cure it, load it with Maxcem Elite or Rely-X Unicem and seat it.

1) Can I also 1,2,3 the prep with Surpass and will this improve bond strengths, or will it mess with the Self-etch of the cements?

2) Any problems with not treating the prep if I Interface and Sur3 my crowns and then seat with Maxcem or Unicem?

3) What other go to cements are you using besides Anchor? I mean for cementing and not bonding when isolation is a problem.

Thanks.
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drharemza



Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the reasoning behind not using Anchor on very retentive preps?
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: Surpass with Universal Resins cements Reply with quote

Renzo wrote:
I use Anchor nearly 90% of the time. Occasionally when I have a very retentive prep, I'll Interface my Emax and Sur3 it, cure it, load it with Maxcem Elite or Rely-X Unicem and seat it.

1) Can I also 1,2,3 the prep with Surpass and will this improve bond strengths, or will it mess with the Self-etch of the cements?

2) Any problems with not treating the prep if I Interface and Sur3 my crowns and then seat with Maxcem or Unicem?

3) What other go to cements are you using besides Anchor? I mean for cementing and not bonding when isolation is a problem.

Thanks.


Until recently the only other cement I was using was RelyX Luting for metal crowns that do not require bonding.

Then a patient and very long time friend came in with a crown in his hand. He dislodged when he jumped off a ladder consequent to having the crap scared out of him by a bat.

I had cemented that crown 28 years ago.

With Durelon.

It was clean as a whistle inside. Guess what it went back on with.
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, using Surpass prior to any self-etching cement jacks the bond strengths way up.

I think you'd be crazy not to use Surpass with those cements.

The margins will thank you later.
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scottie



Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 360
Location: Albuquerque NM

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay John, I'm going to step into this and guess how you re-cemented that crown.
First of all I'd have sand blasted the inside of the crown, sealed the prep with Simplicity and re-cemented with Rely X cement.

I'm thinking, you sand blasted the inside of the crown, placed Surpass on the prep, ( I think you didn't cure the Surpass 3 but just air thinned it, since curing it might have caused too thick a layer for the crown to seat properly) then put Anchor inside the crown and cemented it.
You waited till the Anchor gelled a bit then cleaned the cement off, or after you cemented it you zapped the margin briefly with the light and began cleaning the cement off.

Actually to be honest, I hate to admit I'm not really sure how you re-cemented the crown, but I'd love to know.
And while I'm at it, if the crown does require bonding, what is your protocol for cementing it?
Thanks as always.
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priior



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(i think he recemented it with durelon)
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Nareg Apelian DMD
Montreal, Qc, Canada
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottie wrote:
Okay John, I'm going to step into this and guess how you re-cemented that crown.
First of all I'd have sand blasted the inside of the crown, sealed the prep with Simplicity and re-cemented with Rely X cement.

I'm thinking, you sand blasted the inside of the crown, placed Surpass on the prep, ( I think you didn't cure the Surpass 3 but just air thinned it, since curing it might have caused too thick a layer for the crown to seat properly) then put Anchor inside the crown and cemented it.
You waited till the Anchor gelled a bit then cleaned the cement off, or after you cemented it you zapped the margin briefly with the light and began cleaning the cement off.

Actually to be honest, I hate to admit I'm not really sure how you re-cemented the crown, but I'd love to know.
And while I'm at it, if the crown does require bonding, what is your protocol for cementing it?
Thanks as always.


Nareg is right. It went back on with Durelon.
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satchdds



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 210
Location: niagara falls, n.y.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( I think you didn't cure the Surpass 3 but just air thinned it, since curing it might have caused too thick a layer for the crown to seat properly) then put Anchor inside the crown and cemented it.


Nareg is right. It went back on with Durelon.[/quote]

JK please comment on the above technique. (self curing sur 3)
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surpass 3 is always light-cured. It's part of the video. There's always the instructions, if nothing else:

Quote:
NOTE: For indirect restorations, air-thin SURPASS™ 3 sufficiently to allow seating of the restoration and light-activate
.

http://apexdentalmaterials.com/surpass/surpass_instructions.htm
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drharemza



Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it be exceptable to use Rely-x Unicem 2 as a cement for and then in combination with surpass on the topoth and interface and sur 2 on a cerec crown?
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drharemza wrote:
Would it be exceptable to use Rely-x Unicem 2 as a cement for and then in combination with surpass on the topoth and interface and sur 2 on a cerec crown?


Yes. That would be far, far better than the Unicem 2 alone.
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drharemza



Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks,
We are looking for a new luting cement and the doctor that works with me want to use the same cement for both pfms and for cerec. I will continue, as always, to use anchor and surpass. Why change what is not broken.
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drharemza wrote:
Thanks,
We are looking for a new luting cement and the doctor that works with me want to use the same cement for both pfms and for cerec. I will continue, as always, to use anchor and surpass. Why change what is not broken.


Indeed.
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