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Two veneer debonds with relyx veneer/sim

 
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CMcLean



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Two veneer debonds with relyx veneer/sim Reply with quote

Just a quick question. I have had two veneers debond recently. When using relyx veneer cement should I not be puting an uncured layer of sim 2 on the tooth before veneer placement? I am so used to doing that with anchor that I just carried it over to the veneer cement.

Thanks

Chris
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not necessary to add the second layer of Sim 2 when using Unicem.

Why are you using Unicem for veneers?
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CMcLean



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not using unicem. Sorry for the confusion. I am using 3M's Veneer cement. So do I still not use the second uncured coat?

Here is my technique.

cerec veneer

interface
sim2 as directed
cure
place 3M veneer cement


Prep

sim1/2 as directed. Cure
sim 2 uncured
place veneer
clean
cure

thanks

chris
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jasonl



Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 272
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like your technique is correct.
What, if anything, are you cleaning the tooth/prep with?

I had a couple debonds recently.
I found it was debonding from the tooth/cement interface. The cement (anchor in my case) was firmly bonded to the restoration.

I was using hydrogen peroxide to clean the teeth....I stopped doing that.

I now use 91% isopropyl alcohol to clean the tooth...
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CMcLean



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use alcohol or scrub the tooth with sim1 then rinse and dry. I have also been having debonds at the tooth cement junction. The cement is still always on the restoration. Got to love that interface. I am not ruling out an occlusion issue with these two debonds but want to make sure it is not my bonding protocol.

chris
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RelyX Veneer is a light-activated material and the extra Sim 2 coat is contraindicated.

How long are you light-activating everything and with what light?
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CMcLean



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I light cure with a LE Demetron II for 10 sec on facial then 10 on lingual. The uncured layer must have been my mistake. Thanks for the help!

Chris McLean
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the Simplicity- is that light-activated before the veneer is inserted?

(and there's more still...)
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Ekrause



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 782
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the power density of the light output? Have you checked it recently??

How thick are the veneers?? 10 seconds isn't long enough, and the ceramic greatly attenuates the power of the light, and gets worse and worse the thicker the veneer.
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CMcLean



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cured the simplicity on both the tooth and the veneer(after interface placement). I then placed an uncured layer of sim2 on the tooth prior to placement. This step you explained was wrong with the 3M cement.


I have checked the light for output. It comes with a power guage and I check it about once a month. The veneer was about 1mm thick. I cured for ten seconds from the facial and ten seonds from the lingual.

I just recemented the veneer yesterday morning. When I rechecked the occlusion it was a shade high on protrusion. That could have also contributed assuming it is recemented in the same spot.

Thanks,

Chris
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6346

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CMcLean wrote:
I cured the simplicity on both the tooth and the veneer(after interface placement). I then placed an uncured layer of sim2 on the tooth prior to placement. This step you explained was wrong with the 3M cement.


I have checked the light for output. It comes with a power guage and I check it about once a month. The veneer was about 1mm thick. I cured for ten seconds from the facial and ten seonds from the lingual.

I just recemented the veneer yesterday morning. When I rechecked the occlusion it was a shade high on protrusion. That could have also contributed assuming it is recemented in the same spot.

Thanks,

Chris


What kind of light?

OK, Chris- here's an assignment. Get a piece of porcelain about 1 mm thick. Put it over the light meter and measure the power density with the porcelain piece in place and without.

Then let us know what you find.

In the meantime, while an interference absolutely can be part of the problem, ten seconds of exposure is not even close to sufficient energy to properly harden the luting material.

40-60 seconds total is what you need- but not all at once. That would heat up the tooth too much.
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