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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:33 pm Post subject: DRY DRY DRY |
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Dry tooth structure in cavity preps for 5-10 seconds before applying Simplicity 1.
IGNORE anyone who disagrees or tries to argue otherwise.
 _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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cool kid
Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 818 Location: chicago
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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no worries on dessication? I always thought that drying the tooth like that was some of the cause of dessication and sensitivity. I personally isolate the tooth. give it a blast of air for about 1-2 seconds and then use a cotton ball to dry it further. _________________ Rich (cool kid) Rosenblatt
whipping boy of flem |
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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Think of it this way- what if you wanted to coat the bottom of a bucket with paint and there was a layer of water there. You need to make room for the resin.
Desiccation AFTER placing Sim 1 would be BAD. But Sim 1 IS the hydrating element! This allows the Sim 2 to get even deeper into the dentin surface. The bond strengths jump.
 _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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cool kid
Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 818 Location: chicago
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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AH, I now see the light! thanks _________________ Rich (cool kid) Rosenblatt
whipping boy of flem |
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bj
Joined: 15 May 2005 Posts: 320
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Is this a new finding & advice. Seems I remember instructions said something like "dry don't dessicate".
No problem for me to dry it well before sim 1.
So why not just suction off the alcohol, can't get more dry than that; or would the alc leave an undesirable residue?
Thanks for the intructional post |
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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Is this a new finding & advice. Seems I remember instructions said something like "dry don't dessicate".
Yeah, it did. After dwelling on this mentally and extensively during vacation I was running experiments yesterday and the initial bond values went way up when I did this- and it did every time I repeated it. Especially on deep dentin. This was a thinking response to the pulpal fluid thing as well as the water tree thing. We have to have the resin zone free of extraneous water when bonding takes place. Drying things like this means that pulpal fluid, whether you accept the premise or not, will be removed as a factor as it cannot flow out so fast as to catch up with this kind of drying. For the academicians, this should accomodate that effect. We may not be done with the topic yet.
No problem for me to dry it well before sim 1.
So why not just suction off the alcohol, can't get more dry than that; or would the alc leave an undesirable residue?
Right- alcohol and acetone are chemicals too!
Thanks for the intructional post
Yes sir!  _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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grenadamadd
Joined: 22 Jun 2005 Posts: 2
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: DRY DRY DRY |
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[quote="john kanca"][b]Dry tooth structure in cavity preps for 5-10 seconds before applying Simplicity 1.
[u]IGNORE[/u] anyone who disagrees or tries to argue otherwise. [/b]
[/quote] Blessed with early onset Altzheimers, my step by step for uncut enamel as in Maryland Bridge bonding is therefore: 1. Clean uncut enamel with alcohol; 2. Dry, Dry, Dry the alcohol with 5-10 seconds with syringe about 2 inches from prep; 3. Dab on Simplicity 1 on enamel and wings of temporary maryland bridge, wait 20 seconds; 4. Gently blow air about 2 sec from about 5 inches away to evenly disperse (not dry) the sim 1; 5. brush on the sim 2; 6. Gently blow excess sim2 about 2 seconds then light cure 20 seconds; 7. Place a brushful of sim2 on the enamel and the metal wings and do NOT cure 8. Place thin film of cement on wing of metal; 9. Press firmly to position; 10. Light cure multiple times from edges of metal (about 40 total for each wing) |
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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Not here! New topic! Go her4:
http://apexdentalmaterials.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=1320#1320
I hate to be a pest about this but this is one of the things that messes up other forums- one topic morphing into another. For the purposes of being a good archive for all, it is best to keep topics and questions relevant to that already existent. Please feel free to begin another thread if it is appropriate. I will answer it!  _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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BY THE WAY
I just ran a two hour test doing just as I have instructed here-
I got average bond strengths of 51.8 mPa !!!!!!!!!!
I am positively giddy!
And Gerry is here now- he saw it all.  _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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dsg_c1
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 352 Location: mill creek, wa
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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john kanca wrote: |
I got average bond strengths of 51.8 mPa !!!!!!!!!!
I am positively giddy! |
john, at what point is bond strength not an issue anymore - i mean at what point will you be completely satisfied? i understand the ramifications of higher bond strengths, but i always thought that 20 - 30 mpa was completely adequate, or is this "adequate" because this is just about the limit with todays agents?
take care,
d _________________ darren greenhalgh dds
15130 main st suite 210
mill creek, wa. 98012
www.pacificNWsmiles.com
425.357.6400
friend of flem
frequently a blasphemer of John Kanca III, DMD |
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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Adequacy is a function of the stresses applied in a given situation. Everything fatigues over time and the higher one starts, the better. I am always in pursuit of the everlasting bond.
I do not think I will ever be satisfied- this is both a blessing and a curse. _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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cool kid
Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 818 Location: chicago
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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john kanca wrote: | Adequacy is a function of the stresses applied in a given situation. Everything fatigues over time and the higher one starts, the better. I am always in pursuit of the everlasting bond.
I do not think I will ever be satisfied- this is both a blessing and a curse. |
kind of like willy wonka and the everlasting gobstopper!  _________________ Rich (cool kid) Rosenblatt
whipping boy of flem |
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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Would someone like to tell Leila Suki on DT about Anchor?
Thanks! _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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cool kid
Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 818 Location: chicago
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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what thread? _________________ Rich (cool kid) Rosenblatt
whipping boy of flem |
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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, guys!  _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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