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Renzo
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 36 Location: Redmond, OR
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:40 pm Post subject: Surpass with Universal Resins cements |
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I use Anchor nearly 90% of the time. Occasionally when I have a very retentive prep, I'll Interface my Emax and Sur3 it, cure it, load it with Maxcem Elite or Rely-X Unicem and seat it.
1) Can I also 1,2,3 the prep with Surpass and will this improve bond strengths, or will it mess with the Self-etch of the cements?
2) Any problems with not treating the prep if I Interface and Sur3 my crowns and then seat with Maxcem or Unicem?
3) What other go to cements are you using besides Anchor? I mean for cementing and not bonding when isolation is a problem.
Thanks. _________________ "It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and THEN do your best" - W. Edwards Deming |
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drharemza
Joined: 28 Dec 2009 Posts: 71
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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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What is the reasoning behind not using Anchor on very retentive preps? |
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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Surpass with Universal Resins cements |
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Renzo wrote: | I use Anchor nearly 90% of the time. Occasionally when I have a very retentive prep, I'll Interface my Emax and Sur3 it, cure it, load it with Maxcem Elite or Rely-X Unicem and seat it.
1) Can I also 1,2,3 the prep with Surpass and will this improve bond strengths, or will it mess with the Self-etch of the cements?
2) Any problems with not treating the prep if I Interface and Sur3 my crowns and then seat with Maxcem or Unicem?
3) What other go to cements are you using besides Anchor? I mean for cementing and not bonding when isolation is a problem.
Thanks. |
Until recently the only other cement I was using was RelyX Luting for metal crowns that do not require bonding.
Then a patient and very long time friend came in with a crown in his hand. He dislodged when he jumped off a ladder consequent to having the crap scared out of him by a bat.
I had cemented that crown 28 years ago.
With Durelon.
It was clean as a whistle inside. Guess what it went back on with. _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:58 am Post subject: |
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BTW, using Surpass prior to any self-etching cement jacks the bond strengths way up.
I think you'd be crazy not to use Surpass with those cements.
The margins will thank you later. _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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scottie
Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 360 Location: Albuquerque NM
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Okay John, I'm going to step into this and guess how you re-cemented that crown.
First of all I'd have sand blasted the inside of the crown, sealed the prep with Simplicity and re-cemented with Rely X cement.
I'm thinking, you sand blasted the inside of the crown, placed Surpass on the prep, ( I think you didn't cure the Surpass 3 but just air thinned it, since curing it might have caused too thick a layer for the crown to seat properly) then put Anchor inside the crown and cemented it.
You waited till the Anchor gelled a bit then cleaned the cement off, or after you cemented it you zapped the margin briefly with the light and began cleaning the cement off.
Actually to be honest, I hate to admit I'm not really sure how you re-cemented the crown, but I'd love to know.
And while I'm at it, if the crown does require bonding, what is your protocol for cementing it?
Thanks as always. |
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priior

Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 345
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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(i think he recemented it with durelon) _________________ Nareg Apelian DMD
Montreal, Qc, Canada |
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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:12 am Post subject: |
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scottie wrote: | Okay John, I'm going to step into this and guess how you re-cemented that crown.
First of all I'd have sand blasted the inside of the crown, sealed the prep with Simplicity and re-cemented with Rely X cement.
I'm thinking, you sand blasted the inside of the crown, placed Surpass on the prep, ( I think you didn't cure the Surpass 3 but just air thinned it, since curing it might have caused too thick a layer for the crown to seat properly) then put Anchor inside the crown and cemented it.
You waited till the Anchor gelled a bit then cleaned the cement off, or after you cemented it you zapped the margin briefly with the light and began cleaning the cement off.
Actually to be honest, I hate to admit I'm not really sure how you re-cemented the crown, but I'd love to know.
And while I'm at it, if the crown does require bonding, what is your protocol for cementing it?
Thanks as always. |
Nareg is right. It went back on with Durelon. _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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satchdds
Joined: 10 Jun 2005 Posts: 210 Location: niagara falls, n.y.
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:31 am Post subject: |
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( I think you didn't cure the Surpass 3 but just air thinned it, since curing it might have caused too thick a layer for the crown to seat properly) then put Anchor inside the crown and cemented it.
Nareg is right. It went back on with Durelon.[/quote]
JK please comment on the above technique. (self curing sur 3) |
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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Surpass 3 is always light-cured. It's part of the video. There's always the instructions, if nothing else:
Quote: | NOTE: For indirect restorations, air-thin SURPASS™ 3 sufficiently to allow seating of the restoration and light-activate | .
http://apexdentalmaterials.com/surpass/surpass_instructions.htm _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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drharemza
Joined: 28 Dec 2009 Posts: 71
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Would it be exceptable to use Rely-x Unicem 2 as a cement for and then in combination with surpass on the topoth and interface and sur 2 on a cerec crown? |
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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:34 am Post subject: |
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drharemza wrote: | Would it be exceptable to use Rely-x Unicem 2 as a cement for and then in combination with surpass on the topoth and interface and sur 2 on a cerec crown? |
Yes. That would be far, far better than the Unicem 2 alone. _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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drharemza
Joined: 28 Dec 2009 Posts: 71
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks,
We are looking for a new luting cement and the doctor that works with me want to use the same cement for both pfms and for cerec. I will continue, as always, to use anchor and surpass. Why change what is not broken. |
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john kanca
Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 6346
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:47 am Post subject: |
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drharemza wrote: | Thanks,
We are looking for a new luting cement and the doctor that works with me want to use the same cement for both pfms and for cerec. I will continue, as always, to use anchor and surpass. Why change what is not broken. |
Indeed. _________________ "You need me on that wall."
"You don't have a town named after you" |
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