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brad



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:40 pm    Post subject: unicem Reply with quote

I have done at least 400 units with unicem and have not had much trouble. I have a case though that was a crown on 31-- was asymptomatic PFM with obvious recurrent decay on the distal. Fairly straightforward case- done in correlation (copied the old crown anatomy) and cemented with Unicem, neat.

Tooth is still a bit tender to chew on-- not cold sensitive or percussion sensitive, but hurts after chewing--- possibly on the release of the bolus?

Anyway, I was wondering what your thoughts are here-- I have never had this before...and I am stumped. Possible void in the cement/crown interface????

Tooth was moist, cleaned with ispropyl, blotted with wet gauze and crown etch/silane and Unicem.....nothing terribly new or different.

thanks
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Bradley A Dorsch, DDS
Forest Hills Family Denitstry
1055 Nimitzview Dr
Cincinnati, OH 45244
513-231-5353
www.cincytoothdoc.com
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Ekrause



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 782
Location: I'm here now.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've got a bond failure. Always use bond before Unicem. Preferably Simplicity.
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dsg_c1



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 352
Location: mill creek, wa

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ekrause wrote:
You've got a bond failure. Always use bond before Unicem. Preferably Simplicity.


eric - do you ALWAYS bond? i have been bonding all of my non - retentive preps (onlays) and some rare less than desirable retentive crowns, but do you still bond every crown prep with ideal retention, no heme, supra-g?

it certainly can't hurt!

what about non ideal crown preps when using resin? slight heme, can't isolate due to being way sub-g?

by the way i just found my 10 d instruction manual. i will get it in the mail tomorrow.

take care,
d
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darren greenhalgh dds
15130 main st suite 210
mill creek, wa. 98012
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Ekrause



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 782
Location: I'm here now.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dsg_c1 wrote:
Ekrause wrote:
You've got a bond failure. Always use bond before Unicem. Preferably Simplicity.


eric - do you ALWAYS bond? i have been bonding all of my non - retentive preps (onlays) and some rare less than desirable retentive crowns, but do you still bond every crown prep with ideal retention, no heme, supra-g?


I bond every single one!


Quote:
it certainly can't hurt!

what about non ideal crown preps when using resin? slight heme, can't isolate due to being way sub-g?


Way sub-g, I'll e-surge, pack cord, to get isolation to bond. If I can't isolate, they get crown lengthening.

Quote:
by the way i just found my 10 d instruction manual. i will get it in the mail tomorrow.

take care,
d


Thanks Darren!!


Eric
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Mark J Fleming DDS



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 736
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren,

I'm with Eric-I use Simplicity on EVERTHING. Swiched from Unicem, Maxcem because of what Jim Simon and John have said. Use Anchor for A2 situations and MultiLink Clear (hint, hint Apex Duo) where a clear is needed. Cool

About time on that manual!!!!

Eric, good luck on the Boards! Cool
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cool kid



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 818
Location: chicago

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to agree with the complete bonders here. I have been bonding everything. JK told me a while back when I asked about alcohol that I should definitely use it but make sure that it is rinsed off completely. I wonder if just blotting could have caused a bond issue? just wondering. I assumed that the bite has been checked in all excursive movements.
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6345

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad


All you need is the one case that goes badly to understand why I so strongly recommend adhesive under everything. It would have prevented that unfortunate incident.

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brad



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHy are you guys always right...I am thinking the same thing-- either crevicular fluid, alcohol, or incomplete mix/bond of the cement. Of course this happens to me after becoming part of the Simplicty-nation Shocked

I will redo the thing soon and keep you guys posted.

You guys have any thoughts on variolonk 2 other than its poor conversion? How about multilink-- can you use simplicity with multilink instead of ivolcar's A and B bottles (excite?)

Thanks.
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Bradley A Dorsch, DDS
Forest Hills Family Denitstry
1055 Nimitzview Dr
Cincinnati, OH 45244
513-231-5353
www.cincytoothdoc.com
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6345

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brad wrote:
WHy are you guys always right...I am thinking the same thing-- either crevicular fluid, alcohol, or incomplete mix/bond of the cement. Of course this happens to me after becoming part of the Simplicty-nation Shocked

I will redo the thing soon and keep you guys posted.

You guys have any thoughts on variolonk 2 other than its poor conversion? How about multilink-- can you use simplicity with multilink instead of ivolcar's A and B bottles (excite?)

Thanks.


'Sa matta- you no like Anchor? Razz

I don't know, I have not tested it, but my conjecture is that it ought to work. You like expensive stuff, Brad? Laughing
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6345

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"WHy are you guys always right...I am thinking the same thing-- either crevicular fluid, alcohol, or incomplete mix/bond of the cement. Of course this happens to me after becoming part of the Simplicty-nation "

I like that first part, but I like that second part a LOT. Very Happy
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dsg_c1



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 352
Location: mill creek, wa

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flem wrote: About time on that manual!!!!


love you to flem!
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darren greenhalgh dds
15130 main st suite 210
mill creek, wa. 98012
www.pacificNWsmiles.com
425.357.6400

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brad



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey dudes-

the tooth in question now has some pulpitis (sens to cold, hot < 5 seconds)

Is this directly related to bond failure?
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Bradley A Dorsch, DDS
Forest Hills Family Denitstry
1055 Nimitzview Dr
Cincinnati, OH 45244
513-231-5353
www.cincytoothdoc.com
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Mark J Fleming DDS



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 736
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brad wrote:
Hey dudes-

the tooth in question now has some pulpitis (sens to cold, hot < 5 seconds)

Is this directly related to bond failure?


Brad,

Could very well be. Possibly time for good will and redo ASAP on your dime. Bacterial leakage could be causing this. Provisionalize tooth, seal with Simplicity and see how tooth responds. Hope this helps. Cool
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brad



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

redo is happening right now. Had a bitch of a time cutting the old cerec off, although one piece did pop off on the lingual---maybe the site of failure. I am milling a new crown right now and will seat with simplicity and resin cement (unicem) and hope for a better result.
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Bradley A Dorsch, DDS
Forest Hills Family Denitstry
1055 Nimitzview Dr
Cincinnati, OH 45244
513-231-5353
www.cincytoothdoc.com
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dsg_c1



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 352
Location: mill creek, wa

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i heard J. Simon from U of Tenn. say thet the amount of bonding agent/resin cement was not an issue......

this was my beef with clearfil se - after looking at recall composites and onlays i didn't like the look of the margins- i attributed this to the thickness of clearfill. this is why i turned from the dark side to simplicity - i love this stuff.

.....back to J Simon - he said that the problem with bonding agent/ resin cement was inconsistencies or bubbles, anything irregular or voids will cause you problems.

what do you think JK?

take care,
d
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darren greenhalgh dds
15130 main st suite 210
mill creek, wa. 98012
www.pacificNWsmiles.com
425.357.6400

friend of flem
frequently a blasphemer of John Kanca III, DMD
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