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treatment of veneers with interface

 
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Pcus



Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 434
Location: toronto

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:21 am    Post subject: treatment of veneers with interface Reply with quote

I was recently at seminar with a well respected researcher. His reccomdation for the treatment of porcelain venner is to etch with a buffered 9.5% hydrofluoric acid (gel/not liquid) for 90 seconds. A two bottled silane system should be painted (not dropped on) to the veneer (a thin layer) and then a non hema unfilled bonding resin should be applied. I am sure interface fits this bill but I am no chemist. My confusion is. Can interface be applied to a hydrofuoric acid etch surface in place of the silane, or does the surface HAVE to be sandblasted first.
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Mark J Fleming DDS



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 736
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need for the acid. Sandblast, then Interface. Tell your lab-Just make the veneer, do nothing else. Interface the veneer, then place the Sim 2. Check the veneer threads under Simplicity and Interface. Cool
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Pcus



Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 434
Location: toronto

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it be advisable to have my lab sandblast the internal surfaces of my ceramic restorations? or should I do it myself. You said have the lab make the veneer nothing else. I am assuming you mean I should sandblast before interface.
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Pcus



Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 434
Location: toronto

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am checking the threads on interface, they always say place it on the ceramic, but am I to assume all the ceramic surfaces have to be or are sandblasted. Have any tests been done to test the bond strength to ceramic just placing the interface onto a hydrofluroic acid etch ceramic surface/vs sandblasted surface. One other aside..Can you use normal 37% phosphoric acid and Simp 2 with the same results as with Simp 1?
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Mark J Fleming DDS



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 736
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pcus wrote:
Would it be advisable to have my lab sandblast the internal surfaces of my ceramic restorations? or should I do it myself. You said have the lab make the veneer nothing else. I am assuming you mean I should sandblast before interface.


Personally, I would do it myself. Cool
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Mark J Fleming DDS



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 736
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pcus wrote:
I am checking the threads on interface, they always say place it on the ceramic, but am I to assume all the ceramic surfaces have to be or are sandblasted.

Yes

Have any tests been done to test the bond strength to ceramic just placing the interface onto a hydrofluroic acid etch ceramic surface/vs sandblasted surface.

John??????

One other aside..Can you use normal 37% phosphoric acid and Simp 2 with the same results as with Simp 1?


Why would you want to use phosphoric acid? Sim 1 does the job without worrying about any bleeding! Cool
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Ekrause



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 782
Location: I'm here now.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know of at least one doc that does use phosphoric instead of Sim 1. Just make sure when you rinse off the etch, that you don't dessicate the tooth.
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6342

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What exactly is the concern, Paul?

I just this minute finished delivery of eight veneers. I don't know what the lab did with the inside of the veneers but normally Keats just sandblasts them. I applied interface and Sim 2 and light-activated. Then I inserted them as usual. You can come here right now and try to get them off. Wink

We had guys breaking thir fingers trying to get composite off ceramic blocks even one minute after we stuck Anchor on with interface and Sim 2.

If you want to clean the veneer with an acid you can use Sim 1. But now all the old rules about silane are gone. interface is it. The stuff truly is amazing. Very Happy
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Pcus



Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 434
Location: toronto

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John I quess my concern is that I just want to know what to tell my lab to do with the veneers. If he does etch them with HF is it OK to sandblast that surface or should I just apply the interface on the frosted surface. And if I were to sandblast that frosted surface,do I have to remove it completely? I would assume that the complete interior suface of the veneer has to be sandblasted, especially the marginal areas which are usually very thin, and sandblasting these areas will definetly cause some damage to these areas.
I don't completely understand the chemistry of the interface all the threads just say to place it on the ceramic but they don't say how the ceramic was treated. This is a very important thing to know. Would anyone place silane on a ceramic surface if they did not know it was treated with HF acid? and on the other hand would anyone place silane on only a sandblasted surface without re-etching with HF acid. I need to know how to optimize this bond.
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john kanca



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 6342

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My concern is also about what the does to the veneer. It makes me uncomfortable seeing all that white chalky debris scattered about the internal surface.
That's why I like to gently blast the internal veneer surface to standardize it. You can have them do this as well if you like. You could us 27 micron Al203 instead of 50. That's a little more gentle.

Having a clean standardized surface is what's important. If it's etched already it doesn't matter. Just make sure it LOOKS clean and uniform.
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Gerry



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 448
Location: Tarrytown NY

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. III, why not post the results you got last week with Interface on various ceramic porcelain substrates NOT pretreated with H2F2!? I have Procera ready for this Wed! Also some other porcelains. I expect to fracture the porcelain before the adhesive fails - as per all previous tests.
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